klingon a écrit:
Je suis en train d'essayer de mattaquer aux question vers la fin
Je continue un peu et je te laisse finir.
Grothman:
Thank you very much. I know it's very difficult for all of you who've xxx in the past to try to illuminate this issue. I'll call myself first for some questions. I'm gonna start with Mr Graves. Are pilots that you interact with as part of your organization, do you feel, adequately trained and briefed on how to handle encounters with UAPs?
Graves:
No, right now, military witnesses to UAP have limited options for reporting UAP. But more concerning is that [the] commercial aviation sector has not adapted to the lessons that the military has implemented. The military and Department of Defense has stated that UAP represent a critical aviation safety risk. We have not seen that, that same, language being used in the commercial markets. They are not acknowledging this risk.
Grothman:
Ok. What steps do you think you have to be taken to improve a pilot's UAP reporting, be it military or commercial?
Graves:
Right now, we need a system where pilots can report without fear of losing their jobs. There is a fear that the stigma associated with this topic is going to lead to professional repercussions either through management or perhaps through their yearly physical check. So having a secure system reducing the stigma and making this available, this information available through the public is going to reduce the concerns that air crew have.
Grothman:
Could you just give me a little idea [of] the degree to which reports in the past are not made public right now?
Graves:
Well, I don't think there has been a proper reporting system to gather those reports and thus not report them. So to answer your question, I think there is a dearth of data due to the fact that the reporting has been limited up to this time.
Grothman:
Could you tell me why you believe it's - to play the devil's advocate - a reason why some of this stuff should not be available to the public?
Graves:
There's certainly some national security concerns when we use our advanced sensors in our tactical jets to be able to identify these objects. However, there's no reason that the objects themselves would be classified. I would be curious to see how the security classification guideline actually spells out the different nuances of how this topic is classified from the perspective of UAP, not national security.
Grothman:
I'll give you a follow up on that. Assuming that there are reasons why not all this should be made public. This has been around for a long period of time. Can you think of, can any of the three of you think of any reason why anything related to UAPs say 15 years and back should not be immediately made public?
Grusch:
I think one of it is acknowledging a vulnerability, both from a collection and I'll just say a, you know, countermeasure perspective. So it's, now we haven't cracked for many years.
Grothman:
Even say 20 years back, is there any reason why when you go back that far, things shouldn't be made public?
Grusch:
Unless it shows a specific national security vulnerability, as it relates to weakness in a particular defense system.
Grothman:
Ok. Mr Fravor the tic tac incident that you were engaged occurred in 2004. What kind of reporting took place after that incident?
Fravor:
None. We had a standard debrief where the back seaters went down to our carrier intel center and brief what had happened and that was it. No one else talked to us and I was in the top 20 in the battle group. No one came, that captain was aware, the admiral was aware, nothing was done.
Grothman:
Did your commanding officers provide any sort of justification?
Fravor:
No, because I was the commanding officer of the squadron. So no.
Grothman:
Was this incident the only UAP event that you encountered while you were a pilot?
Fravor:
Yes, it was.
Grothman:
Ok. This is for any one of you. Based off of each of your experiences and observations, do you believe UAPs pose a potential threat to our national security?
Fravor:
Yes. And here's why. The technology that we faced was far superior than anything that we had, and you could put that anywhere if you had one, you captured one, you reverse engineered it, you got it to work. You're talking, something can go into space, go someplace, drop down in a matter of seconds, do whatever it wants and leave. And there's nothing we can do about it. Nothing.
Graves:
I would also like to add from commercial aviation and military aviation perspective, we deal with uncertainty in our operating space as a matter of our professional actions, identifying friend from foe is very important to us. So when we have unidentified targets and we continue to ignore those due to a stigma or fear of what it could be, that's an opening that our adversaries can take advantage of.
Grothman:
What steps should be taken to better understand and respond to UAP encounters in the interest of national security?
Graves:
There needs to be a location where this information is centralized for processing and there needs to be a two way communication loop, so the operators on the front end have a feedback and can can get best practices on how to process information, what to do and to ensure that their reporting is being listened to. Right now, there isn't a lot of back and forth.
Grothman:
Mr Grusch, in your complaint to the intelligence community inspector, Inspector General, you claim that you believe information is being hidden. What kind of information do you think was hidden and do you think it should remain hidden?
Grusch:
Yes, I can speak to that very briefly in an unclassified manner, as you know, the preponderance of my complaint was classified to the intelligence communities, both material acquisition and exploitation activity. Also, baselining the UAPs but not sharing it with, you know, intelligence professionals that are actually doing step briefs the pilots, that that kind of information. Yeah.
Grothman:
OK. Thank you very much. Now, we'll go to Mr Garcia.
Garcia:
Thank you. Again, thank you all for your, for your service and for testifying today. I wanna just talk about the UAPs as it relates to what we're seeing in the pilots interaction with UAPs. Particularly Mr Graves. One of the concerns for members of this committee is this idea that [for] pilots, there's no system to actually report UAPs and the stigma around pilots. Could you, just briefly, you mentioned that you are working with 30 pilots right now that have had encounters with UAPs, but you've also, I believe, discussed and know of many more pilots. This is just those that you're currently working with. Is that correct? Can you expand on that?
Graves:
Certainly, I'll break that down in two ways. First, when we were first experiencing these objects off the eastern seaboard in the 2014 to 2015 time period, anyone that had upgraded their radar systems were seeing these objects. So there was a large number of my colleagues that were detecting these objects off the eastern seaboard. They were further correlating that information with the other onboard sensors and many of them also had their own eye sightings as well of these objects. Now, that was our personal first hand experience at the time. Since then, as I've engaged this topic, others have reached out to me, they shared their experiences both on the military side, as well as the commercial aviation side. On the military aviation side, veterans that have recently got out, have shared their stories and have expressed how the objects we were seeing in 2014, 2015 continued all the way to 2019, 2020 beyond. And so it became a generational issue for naval aviators on the eastern seaboard. This was something we are briefing to new students. This is something that was included in the notice to airmen to ensure that there was no accidents. And now, with commercial aviators, they are reaching out because they're having somewhat similar experiences as our military brothers and sisters. But they do not have any reporting system that they can send this to.
Garcia:
And let me just add and both to, to Mr Fravor as well as Mr Graves, not having the system for reporting, would you both agree that it's harmful to, not just in our national security interest but to understand this phenomenon, of what's happening with UAPs?
Fravor:
I think it's actually, it's a travesty that we don't have a system to correlate this and actually investigate. You know. So if you took the east coast, you know, there's coastal radars out there that monitor our air defense identification zone. So out to 200 miles, they can track these, you know, so when you see them, they can actually go and pull that data and get maneuvering. And instead of just having the airplanes, there's other data sources out there and I've talked to other government officials on this. So you need a centrally located repository that these reports go to. So if you just stuck it in DoD, you wouldn't get anything out of the intelligence committee because they have a tendency not to talk. But if you had a central location where these reports would come in, not just military but also commercial aviation because there's a lot of that going on, especially if you talk to anyone that flies from here to Hawaii, over the Pacific, they see odd lights. So I think you need to develop something that allows you a central point to collect the data in order to investigate.
Graves:
I would concur with everything Mr Fravor said, I'll continue to say that the commercial pilots that have reached out to me through Americans for Safe Aerospace are doing so because they don't feel there's another way for them to report this safety issue.
Garcia:
And I think one of the clear outcomes of this hearing already is that there has to be a safe and transparent reporting process for pilots, both on the commercial side and the military side to be able to report UAPs in a way that's also transparent but also understands the scope of our national security interests and what may be classified or not. But I think there has to be some sort of system. And so that's something that I hope can be an outcome that this committee can work on. Is there anything else for the two of you, briefly, beyond this reporting system that you think that we can do with the government to encourage and facilitate more civilian reporting?
Graves:
We are doing it right now? I think this hearing is going to show the American people that their government takes this topic seriously.
Garcia:
And how about civilians? They may not be pilots, what kind of process could be in place for civilians who are not pilots, who may have UAP encounters? Do either of you have any suggestions that could facilitate that?
Graves:
My recommendations would be to make that a sensor-centric operation, in order to make it as objective as possible.
Garcia:
Ok, sir, Mr Favor?
Fravor:
I agree with Mr Graves on that.
Garcia:
Ok. Just, briefly, I also just want to note, particularly for the two pilots, and I have a question for Mr Grush. One of the things that I found fascinating in our discussion, Mr Graves, last night as well is that you've both described UAPs and formations and the way they are observed in space or, in our air and the way that they move is essentially, ways in which current technology or aircraft that we know of are unable to actually function or move. And so will you just for the public record again, once, once again, just briefly, either describe or note that aircraft that are being witnessed, particularly by the 30 folks that you're working with are essentially outside the scope of anything that we know of today and the technology we have today, Mr Graves, Mr Fravor?
Graves:
Yes, the objects that are being seen by commercial pilots are performing maneuvers that are unexplainable due to our current understanding of our technology and our capabilities as a country and that applies for the military as well.
Fravor:
Yeah, I concur with that, we have nothing that can stop in midair and go the other direction. Nor do we have anything that can like in our situation, come down from space, hang out for three hours and go back up.
Garcia:
Thank you. My last question and, and sometimes you, I know that some of you have also said some of these answers in the past, we're trying to get them on the public record as well, which is really important. Mr Grusch, finally, do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs?
Grusch:
Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years.
Garcia:
And, where?
Grusch:
I know the exact locations, and those locations were provided to the inspector general and some of which to the intelligence committees, I actually had the people with the firsthand knowledge, provide a protected disclosure to the inspector general.
Garcia:
Thank you. And Mr Chairman, I would just say that I think that these questions are important questions and I look forward to being involved in the process to get those answered. I know there will be a lot of questions from other committee members, so I yield back.
Accueil
que si ses allégations de seconde main sont un jour confirmées par le Congrès ou le DoD.
