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Cash-Landrum 29 décembre 1980 DAYTON TEXAS

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John_Carter
sentry579
Sebastien
oncle dom
RAF
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lilith_unique
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Curieuse
PhD Smith
Nicolas M.
hal9000
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nablator
marcassite
22 participants

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nablator

nablator
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The Legend of the Scorched Road
http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.fr/2013/11/cash-landrum-ufo-case-legend-of.html

Cash-Landrum  29 décembre 1980 DAYTON TEXAS - Page 18 Adu

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

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Very good one (as usual)! diablotin content 

Curt a également écrit cet autre billet sur son blog:
The DAIG Investigation of the Cash-Landrum UFO Incident, John B. Alexander’s Involvement and Opinions:
http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.fr/2013/11/the-daig-investigation-of-cash-landrum.html

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Invité

Nouveau billet de Curt:
The Cash-Landrum Controversy: Witness or Investigator Culpability
http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.fr/2013/11/the-cash-landrum-controversy-witness-or.html

nablator

nablator
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Gilles F. a écrit:Nouveau billet de Curt:
The Cash-Landrum Controversy: Witness or Investigator Culpability
Re-Cash-Landrum  29 décembre 1980 DAYTON TEXAS - Page 18 Adu

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

sentry579

sentry579

Thank you for reading! I'd about lost interest and decided to start dumping my files for others to use. In the process, it  reawakened my interest in the case. I'm still not sure what to make of it all- a cautionary tale?

Some of you may have already heard- I've been invited to appear on Martin Willis' Podcast UFO with Chris Lambright. Martin has received a commitment from COLBY LANDRUM to also appear as a guest. Date to be announced soon (2-3 weeks). Instead of speaking, I'm now prepared to mostly listen!
- - -

Merci d'avoir lu! J'avais environ perdu tout intérêt et a décidé de commencer à placer mes fichiers pour les autres à utiliser. Dans le processus, il a réveillé mon intérêt dans l'affaire. Je ne sais toujours pas quoi faire de tout cela, un récit édifiant?

Certains d'entre vous ont peut-être déjà entendu parler, j'ai été invité à figurer sur Martin Willis Podcast OVNI avec Chris Lambright. Martin a reçu un engagement de LANDRUM Colby apparaît également en tant qu'invité. La date sera annoncée prochainement (2-3 semaines). Au lieu de parler, je suis maintenant prêt à écouter surtout!

http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.com/

nablator

nablator
Administration
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Curt, I should have asked you earlier, but since you mentioned it on Robert's blog, would it be possible to help us Frenchies understand what Vickie said in her telephone UFO report to Robert Gribble of NUFORC on Feb. 2, 1981?

http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.fr/2012/01/cash-landrum-phone-report-of-ufo.html

The recording was "not made on the best equipment" and I have a difficult time understanding Texans even when the sound is good.  I got maybe 5%:

01:21:51
... this is Vickie Landrum ...
... ahead of us ... and we got out of the car...
... I got back in the car
... of my eyes in front.
Betty Cash was with me ...
... she's been in Parkway Hospital over two weeks...
... it could be ... possibly ... get to us ... any time do ... as we want ... we were supposed ...

-How close do you feel you were to it?
... not more than maybe about a block and a half...
... if he saw someone coming out of it, it would be Jesus...

-Was this a faily large object?
Yes sir.

-Would it be larger than your car?
Yes sir.

- Did it land on the ground?
It came down almost to the treetops...
... 23 helicopters, there may have been more...
... there has to be somebody that knows about it...
... better.

-Where were you at the time?
We were on the cutoff road between New Caney and Huffmann road.
My name is Vickie Landrum and her name is Betty Cash and she's in Parkway Hospital...
... Doctors to ... she wouldn't believe. I mean this is not a hoax. I'm not calling you for a hoax. ...
I'm not putting you on. I wish somebody would go to the hospital and see the lady.

-We're gonna see if we can get some help ... and make an appointment.
... ought to go back in the hospital... and she is not getting any better. ...

-OK we're gonna do everything we can to help.
Thank you a lot.

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

sentry579

sentry579

Nab, you worked hard to transcribe that. It was tough for me, and I speak the same language and even a similar dialect. Vickie often speaks so rapidly and breathlessly that it is difficult to break all the words down. I finally got most of them.

I've updated the blog post to include a full transcript:
Transcript: Vickie Landrum NUFORC Call

http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.com/

nablator

nablator
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sentry579 a écrit:I've updated the blog post to include a full transcript:
Transcript: Vickie Landrum NUFORC Call
Thank you! cheers 

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

nablator

nablator
Administration
Administration

One of P. J. Klass' principles :

7. In attempting to determine whether a UFO report is a hoax, an investigator should rely on physical evidence, or the lack of it where evidence should exist, and should not depend on character endorsements of the principals involved.
http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/Klass.htm

So every UFO case is a hoax, unless there is physical evidence. Simple! Mad

Why should physical evidence exist in this case is anyone's guess.

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

sentry579

sentry579

Klass loved to underline things, and doing so makes his statement a bit less unreasonable.

7. In attempting to determine whether a UFO report is a hoax, an investigator should rely on physical evidence, or the lack of it where evidence should exist, and should not depend on character endorsements of the principals involved.
Take Travis Walton's body for example (I'm no expert on the case). It should show signs of
being blasted by UFO (at least bruising from impact or from falling)
subjected to zero gravity or possibly cosmic radiation
malnutrition (or nourishment from ET sources)
ET DNA on his skin from his captors and more...

I'm over-explaining the obvious, but some UFO stories involve actions that must leave traces if it was a physical event.

But your are right, Klass' underlying principle was that every case was a hoax. A gambler would put big money on him. He seems to always be right!

Nab, thanks for posting on Sheaffer's blog about the Fort Itaipu hoax!



Dernière édition par sentry579 le 18/11/13, 05:49 pm, édité 1 fois (Raison : spelling)

http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.com/

nablator

nablator
Administration
Administration

sentry579 a écrit:I'm over-explaining the obvious, but some UFO stories involve actions that must leave traces if it was a physical event.
I agree, but it is also easy to misapply the principle by making false assumptions.

Falls don't necessarily leave bruises, especially after a week.

Travis Walton never claimed to have spent time in zero gravity if I remember correctly (that was in the movie).

ET DNA ? Laughing Who tested Walton for ET DNA ? How do you recognize ET DNA, anyway (if ETs exist and have any DNA to test) ?

It's the same kind of assumptions that keep coming up in the Cash-Landrum case as if they were god-given truths.
- Radioactivity would necessarily have left traces (no, we don't know that there was any radioactivity, irradiation is not the same thing.)
- The witnesses would have died (no, only from ionizing radiation, maybe.)
- Many more people would have reported the UFOs and helicopters (no, the place was not as populated as it is today, and the "convoy" could have avoided nearby towns.)
- The medical records would have been made public if there was nothing to hide (more likely John Shuessler did not want the "inconclusive" medical records to help opponents build a case against the credibility of the witnesses by finding inconsistencies and possible other explanations for the diagnostics than radioactive poisoning.)
- etc.

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

Sebastien

Sebastien
Modération
Modération

Sentry a écrit: I hold out for the possibility there was some kind of genuine experience at the root of the story.
I think they did act at some points like genuine victims (or whatever they really were). Searching for instance to come in contact with some helo pilots isn't really a hoaxer behavior. It as nothing to do with UFOs.

Also, one reason why Schussler could have not given the documents is that he either thought that it wasn't important (he wasn't skeptical himself and got perhaps a better investigator afterwards). Or it may also be that the ladies didn't helped him with the documents. So, I'm not even sure we could blame on the investigator either as we don't know anything of his hypothetical queries after the documents.


_________________
Tout se passe comme si l'HSP/TRC était vraie, ou que l'HET était rare.

nablator

nablator
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Sebastien a écrit:we don't know anything of his hypothetical queries after the documents.
There's a lot of medical information in the book. I really do hope JS didn't just make it up. That would be disgusting. pale

No seriously, the witnesses gave JS, and only him, access to their medical records.

EDIT:
+ Billy Cox, apparently.

Cash and the Landrums authorized MUFON investigator John Schuessler to share their medical records with me, which he did. The story was complex and gruesome.

For years, Klass had badgered the victims, and Schuessler, for access to their hospital records. Aware of his proclivities, they refused to comply. “I said, look Phil, why don’t you come up with what you think happened, publish it, and after you do that, we’ll be happy to supply you with the records,” recalls Schuessler from his home in Colorado.

Klass condensed Cash-Landrum into a single page. Rather than posit an alternative scenario, he simply ascribed the whole thing to a hoax founded upon pre-existing medical conditions. Even the Army's own Inspector General investigation specifically cited a lack of evidence for a hoax.

“Klass was a low-life and a bully who used his Aviation Week credentials to hold himself up as an expert,” says Schuessler, retired project manager for space shuttle flight operations at Johnson Space Center. “He just made up stories any way he saw fit.”
http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/12797/klass-act-no-principles/
Cash-Landrum  29 décembre 1980 DAYTON TEXAS - Page 18 60745
The pot calling the kettle black. But he's got a point.

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

nablator

nablator
Administration
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Le rapport d'Allan Hendry !
http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.fr/2013/11/report-on-cashlandrum-new-caney-ceii.html

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

marcassite

marcassite
Membre d'honneur
Membre d'honneur

J'ai survolé ce rapport (peu confortable à lire vsuellement et en anglais en sus) et remarqué quelques petites choses :
- Leur repas du soir n'est pas détaillé mais on sait au moins qu'ils ont consommé des "sausage, eggs,..." au resto routier avant les symptômes physiologiques. Charcuterie, oeufs, mayo, thon sont connus comme source d'intox alimentaire.
-Il est indiqué un gonflement des lèvres (de 3 fois).
Je ne suis pas toubib mais c'est plus du registre de l'oedème d'allergie (histaminique?) ou de l'urticaire que des radiations ...
On sait que les femmes agées sont plus sensibles aux intox alimentaires et aussi que ces intox alimentaires peuvent provoquer des alopécies chez la femme.
(Si quelqu'un peut traduire la note 18 en page 6 qui en parle ?)
-Une des témouines avait bien une cataracte, probablement avant l'observation. => effet éblouissement multiplié, contours peu nets. Tout ce qu'il faut pour une méprise avec un panneau ou un hélico + projo. Est-ce la conductrice ?
-Le gamin Colby dit que les hélicos étaient là du début à la fin de l'observation (hypo du panneau).
-Il me semble avoir lu quelque part qu'il est question d'un traitement qui répond aux antibiotiques.
-la chute de cheveux, d'ongles, la desquamation,
la diarrhée, le gonflement des paupières, lobe d'oreille et des lèvres,... Faudrait vraiment lister tout ça par témoin et demander l'avis de quelques médecins sur les diverses hypothèses logiques (radiation, staphylocoques dorés, intox histaminique, intox autre, radiation, psychosoma, ...)

-Enfin, j'ai le souvenir d'avoir lu il y a longtemps, qu'une des témoins disait ne pas supporter la douche ou le bain (eau chaude). Exact ou pas ?




sentry579

sentry579

I can confirm that the witnesses reported sensitivity to heat and sunlight. Vickie Landrum, for example said she was unable to cook for her family or take warm baths.
- - -
Je peux confirmer que les témoins ont rapporté sensibilité à la chaleur et du soleil. Vickie Landrum, par exemple déclaré qu'elle était incapable de cuisiner pour sa famille ou prendre des bains chauds.

Bonus: My slideshow test reel

http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.com/

nablator

nablator
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marcassite a écrit:Est-ce la conductrice ?
Non, c'est Vickie.

(Si quelqu'un peut traduire la note 18 en page 6 qui en parle ?)
18. J'ai cherché à avoir l'opinion d'un autre pathologiste ici dans les environs [du comté] de Madison. Mon expert m'a indiqué que sous le microscope alopecia areata est un diagnostic spécifique, pas un diagnostic poubelle. [NdT : "poubelle" je suppose que ça veut dire "par défaut"] Raison de plus de douter du diagnostic du pathologiste de là-bas à Houston.

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

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Nouvelle entrée sur le blog de Sentry.
Professor Michael D. Swords Reports on the Cash-Landrum UFO Investigation:

http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.fr/2013/11/professor-michael-d-swords-reports-on.html

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Curt, Isaac Koi et Wim Van Utrecht viennent de rendre téléchargeable un article de ce dernier jusque-là non-publié:
van Utrecht, Wim: Cash-Landrum UFO identified? 2001 published by Caelestia, Antwerp, Belgium
https://app.box.com/s/hdp72hndv5ubkg13o6vv

 

Win tient à ce que ces notes suivantes - qui ne figurent pas dans ce "draft" - soient prises en compte :
- The “flame reflections” that I refer to in the article are actually part of a broader phenomenon that I have since called “Artificial Light Pillars in High Cloud” (a six-part article on these light pillars can be found here: http://www.caelestia.be/article01a.html).


- There are various paragraphs in the text that I now feel should have been either left out or rewritten.


- The German photos included at the end are not a good example of the type of pillar that, I think, caused the CASH/LANDRUM report. Most of the pillars that are shown in these pictures are reflections from unshielded city lights in low cloud (ice mist). What we need for the CASH/LANDRUM report is a mirrored image of a big flame in cirriform cloud. Flames from a gas well or a petrochemical complex may have been responsible for the twin pillars in the bottom picture, but I never managed to establish that with certainty.

A much better example of a bright reflection is this one: http://www.caelestia.be/OP-PH-21.html. It was caused by a flame from a refinery near Terneuzen, The Netherlands. We calculated that the reflection occurred in 16,000 feet high cirrus clouds.

Despite the fact that there are quite a few shortcomings in the text I'm sending you, there is no doubt in my mind that the first phase of the CASH/LANDRUM incident was indeed caused by an atmospheric reflection of a bright flame. Compare for instance the image I just linked to with the following descriptions given in SCHUESSLER’s book:

- Betty: first a “red glow” near the horizon, then also “a vertical streak of red” that “appeared to be miles away”, but “stood out clearly in the sky”.

- Vickie: “a long streak of fire” that didn’t move.


Or in HENDRY’s recently surfaced preliminary report:

- “The whole sky seemed bright ahead of them”; “Then the witnesses became aware that a vertically oblong form was suspended over the road”.

Note also that, like with the light pillar caused by the flare at Terneuzen, the Texan witnesses too wondered if Jesus was going “to come out the fire in the sky”.

The light source responsible for the CASH/LANDRUM reflection - if that is what it was - can only be tracked down if we now the azimuth and elevation of the vertical streak of light (among other things, it was never a 100% clear to me where the car was when the “object” was first spotted). If it turns out that a big flame from an industrial site is impossible, we might be looking at an accident with a pipe line that, for some reason, needed to be covered up.

I still think it’s a pity that I never finished this article, but there were simply too few useful data in SCHUESSLER’s study to make a solid case for this theory.



Dernière édition par Gilles F. le 21/11/13, 09:10 pm, édité 2 fois

sentry579

sentry579

I have just emailed Wim to compliment him on his article and offer him further resources if desired.
His analysis of Schuessler's book is excellent. I feel like I've found a lost brother!

http://blueblurrylines.blogspot.com/

Sebastien

Sebastien
Modération
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Very interesting theory that we'll have to dig a little bit. The linked image isn't visible in the text of Wim. Here it is I think: http://www.caelestia.be/reflections/reflections-fig1.jpg


_________________
Tout se passe comme si l'HSP/TRC était vraie, ou que l'HET était rare.

nablator

nablator
Administration
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Awesome!



Cash-Landrum  29 décembre 1980 DAYTON TEXAS - Page 18 Reflec10
(http://www.caelestia.be/reflections/reflections-fig1.jpg)

Cash-Landrum  29 décembre 1980 DAYTON TEXAS - Page 18 Reflec11
(http://www.caelestia.be/reflections/reflections-fig5.jpg)

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

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La carte fournie par Wim, et ses commentaires, sont intéressants àmha pour examiner l'hypothèse (artificial light pillar):

Cash-Landrum  29 décembre 1980 DAYTON TEXAS - Page 18 Gk528d1d85

nablator

nablator
Administration
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Le problème c'est que :
- les torchères des raffineries doivent être nombreuses, il n'y en a surement pas qu'une seule,
- aucun grand incendie n'a été identifié. Faudra chercher dans les journaux.
- des hélicoptères civils n'ont pas été identifiés non plus, mais y a-t-il seulement eu des recherches ? Un contrôleur aérien (civil et militaire) interrogé n'était au courant de rien.

http://nabbed.unblog.fr/

Sebastien

Sebastien
Modération
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The theory of Wim Van Utrecht points to the Shell Deer Park Oil Refinery which exists since the late 20's and was well active in 1980. It is nowadays the sixth biggest refinery in the States.
http://www.shell.us/aboutshell/projects-locations/deerpark/about-deer-park.html

Here is a picture (almost 2 miles wide) from Google Earth showing the refinery as of December 1978:

Cash-Landrum  29 décembre 1980 DAYTON TEXAS - Page 18 Shell-10

J'ai mappé la carte de Wim Van Utrecht sur Google Earth et mis en évidence la raffinerie en question. Qu'est-ce que vous utilisez pour partager un fichier en ligne? scratch 


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